Forum:How Do I Determine What Weapon Is Better?
What I have been doing is keeping one weapon of each type (including one revolver, one repeater)and just selling everything else. What I used to do to test which weapon was better was I simply multiplied the fire rate and damage (getting the damage per second) in each gun and whichever had the highest, I would keep. I then noticed two things wrong with this method. First of all, burst combat rifles do not work for this as their fire rate only takes in consideration how fast the burst speed is, and doesn't add in the delay between bursts. Second, I noticed that some weapons that had a higher number than another weapon did worse in combat than other weapons, because those other weapons had elemental damage. I have several questions on this topic. First, is there a way to figure out the "actual" fire rate of a burst weapon. Also, is there some sort of new equation that is more improved than mine that some how adds elemental to find which weapon is stronger. Lastly, I'd like to know what methods you use to pick which guns you wield. Thanks! ---- It's hard to get a more exacting equation for damage per second. Your best bet is to try out different guns before you sell or give them away. Elemental damage is a definite bonus, I will almost always prefer a weapon with elemental damage over ones without. Corrosive is great for armored enemies, fire is good for unarmored enemies and shock will take down shields. All three also can go off in spectacular fashion, doing a decent amount of damage over time (DoT). DoT is great because you can duck behind cover to reload, heal or switch weapons, while the enemy continues to take damage, and shields won't regenerate while someone's taking damage. Also, you can see the numbers and get an idea of where the enemy is standing, and even better, they stand out when you get knocked down, makes it easier to aim and get your second wind by killing them. Explosive will turn many baddies into bloody giblets when they proc. As for choosing weapons, I look at damage, elemental effect and multiplier, scope zoom, rate of fire and clip size. A gun with a higher elemental multiplier is desirable over a gun with higher damage, if the damage of the two aren't too far apart. I prefer guns with scopes, but it is one of my least wants compared to elemental multiplier, clip size and rate of fire. Pdboddy 01:29, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ---- I usually keep a long range gun with a scope, (combat rifle with burst, revolver, ext...) something with a high rate of fire (SMG a cold torment repeater, a none burst combat rifle) and a shot gun, my 4th slot is usually taken up by either Sledge's shotgun (or anything that just owns bosses and super tough NMEs) or the eridian lightning rifle (only sniper I'll use.... LOL) I stay away from "Wholy crap!! it shoots rockets!" because I rtend to blow myself up... that's also why I do not like rocket launchers. AishaLove 02:19, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ---- As my Soldier, I carry two Combat Rifles, a semi-auto that's like 280ish damage but has a good zoom for ranged stuff, and a full auto that is like 200 damage but has a huge clip; with overload and my class mod it's like 179 round clip, fires ridiculous fast for a Combat Rifle...burns ammo like crazy but good for nearby mobs that are on the stronger side. As for the other two slots, I usually roll with a rocket launcher with elemental damage on the third slot (whatever is good for what I'm fighting, I have +4's for all elements) and an Eridian weapon in the 4th, which honestly I'm just trying to get my profeciency up with. I usually focus on the Combat Rifles, though... As for what I use to select a weapon, I look at damage/fire rate...I don't tend to pay too much attention to elemental effects because I have my rocket launchers. - Effedup 05:42, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ---- 75.86.191.173 consider which character you are playing. lileth has an advantage with elemental smgs. as Effedup says roland can have HUGE magazines. brick can extend rpg mags and add explosive damage. mordecai can pay out lead down range better than anyone. as you do i tend to keep @ least 1 weapon of type in my arsenal. i tend to use eridian weapons for mop up after the immediate threat is put down. consider your enemy. is it launching shock attacks @ you? if so i would not respond in kind. now to answer your questions: 1 ROF=3(5 for ravens etc)times statistic minus reload rate(varies) over time RoF=burst x rof - RoR/time. 2 damage = DPS(damage per second) + {elemntal multiplier / enemy elemental resistance x time}. 3 _trial and error_ Dr. Clayton Forrestor 07:09, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ---- The type of weapons doesn't really matter...However,I never use shotguns.I prefer weapons with a acceptable accuracy(not too low to make critical hits)and fire rate(also,to make critical hits)....As to damage and elemental efficiency,i just try it out.Instead of keeping a weapon of each type,i try to keep one weapon with corrosive,fire and shock powers to deal with special enemies.Now what i'm carrying is a high damage sniper,another sniper with lower damage and higher fire rate,a static sniper and a corrosive revolver...just for cool,i seldom use weapons with accuracy beneth 90. ---- Thus far I have only played with Roland, but here's what I generally do. Since I keep one of each type of weapon, I'm always comparing against something I already have. If the weapon has an elemental effect, I multiply the base damage by 2 (for shotguns this is the per-pellet damage). Then I compare the Fire Rate and Damage. If one weapon has higher in both, I take it. If it's lower in both, I sell it. The only special case is when it has a higher damage but lower fire rate or vice-versa. In that case I take the higher fire rate, divide by the lower fire rate, and multiply by the lower base damage. The value that I get from that replaces the lower base damage and I compare again. Then I take the one with the highest damage output between those two values. When dealing with shotguns I generally ignore how many pellets there are (but not always) and with triple-rocket launchers I always multiply by three (because it's unlikely I'm going to miss with some of them and not all of them). I also stay away from "Holy Crap! It shoots rockets!" because even if the base damage is higher, the lack of multiple pellets makes it do significantly less damage in practice. To understand why I account for elemental damage by multiplying by two, you should read this lovely topic on the gearbox forums at http://gbxforums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=86431. This doesn't account for the burst delay on combat rifles, but I feel that the accuracy gained from using burst vs. full-auto makes up for any dps drop. - FrozenNemesis 10:04, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ---- Holy Calcutta! and i thought my answer was AR. no offense mate (Please don't ban me, please don't ban me, please don't ban me, please don't ban me...)Dr. Clayton Forrestor ---- Just outta Curiosity... The number they have next to firing rate, what's that number mean? Like does it mean (eg. 12) 12 bullets a second? a minute? Cause I've sorta tested this... and 12 per second seems rather fast, and 12 per minute is much too slow. O.o maybe it's 12 bullets per 30 seconds... anyone with an answer? ---- Not sure I can really answer your original question regarding calculating a more exact rate of fire (RoF), but I can point out a couple of things to keep in mind when you are chooising which guns to keep and which ones to sell, drop or give away. 1. If you are playing on a 360 (and I think this also applies to the PS3) guns will sometimes have more text than you can actually see. Hence, a gun may have additional bonuses/effects not listed in the four lines of text describing the guns attributes in the lower text box. This is evidenced by guns that will have scopes, but not indicate a "x.x zoom" or reload faster than average without stating they have a reload speed bonus. 2. Certain effects listed in the lower text box are already taken into account in the three major stats listed to the right of the weapon pic. Percentage increases to the damage, accuracy or fire rate have already been calculated and added to the stats of the weapon. Bonuses to critical, melee or just about anything else are additional. 3. Elemental effect chance and elemental damage are separate and apart from one another. The big "x1,2,3 or 4" on the bottom right indicates how much elemental damage the weapon will do, whereas the listed text in the lower text box will sometimes indicate whether the weapon has a "chance," "high chance," "higher chance" or "very high chance" to cause the elemental effect. 4. In my opinion damage over time (DoT) elemental weapons (e.g. fire or corrosive) are the most effective; I cannot tell you how many second winds I have obtained from a melting/burning, screaming corpse when the world was closing in darkness around me.Bipolarattorney 20:07, December 2, 2009 (UTC) ---- To get a formula working, we need to get a grip on what the numbers mean. We know what Shots/Second means, and also what Damage/Shot means. Multiplying them together, we can cancel out the redundant feature to get: Damage/Shot x Shots/Second = Damage/Shot x Shots/Second = Damage/Second. But there is also the matter of Accuracy; sometimes a shot doesn't count. A weapon with 100% accuracy hits twice as often as a weapon with only 50% accuracy. So we factor in Accuracy: Accuracy x Damage/Second = Accurate Damage/Second. This makes the term 'Accurate Damage' a technical term that refers to a measure of damage on average, with the chance that a round will go astray already factored in. Pretty Barkin' Cool, huh? To make it an even closer measurement of what we experience in the game world, we need some info that is not presented on the cards. Weapons run out of ammo and must be reloaded. So there's a break in the stream of outgoing rounds, which will reduce the Accurate Damage/Second. The shots/second and the shots/magazine determine how long a weapon will fire before stopping for a reload cycle. But notice that 'shots' appears on top of both fractions, so they can't just be multiplied to cancel out 'Shots'. We will have to flip one of the fractions over, the question is which one? We will end up with either Seconds/Magazine or Magazines/Second. Seconds/Magazine makes more sense. So going back to our two units of measure, we put Seconds on top by flipping the Damage/Second over to be Seconds/Damage (a tiny number). Then we can cancel out Shots/Magazine x Seconds/Shot = Seconds/Magazine. Seconds/Magazine x Accurate Damage/Second = Accurate Damage/Magazine. Hyperion, Jakobs and S&S Munitions could all use this as part of their Quality Control philosophy. If we also knew how long a reload cycle is (in Seconds), then we could add it to the Seconds/Magazine. The damage per second would then be stretched out across the full length of the cycle. AngleWyrm 20:03, December 5, 2009 (UTC) :Using (Accuracy * Damage) is so arbitrary it's pointless. Accuracy is NOT equal to "Percent chance of hitting". If this was an RPG it would work (if accuracy was a pure dice roll and you never actually had to aim). But accuracy actually changes the width of a weapon's cone of fire. The crosshair or reticle when zoomed shows a circular area where bullets will land. When not zoomed you can see it increase while firing due to recoil. For the moment neglecting bullet travel time, if the entire circle covers the enemy (or his head) when you fire, you have a guaranteed hit (crit). In that case more accuracy doesn't even help. Roughly, "% chance of hitting" is "% area of cone of fire that is full of enemy". :How much you care about accuracy stats of a particular gun depends on the range you are using the gun at, your proficiency, skills, and class mods. So you need to decide for yourself for each type of weapon. Example: for snipers you want to hit heads at a certain range, so you might end up with a rule like this: "below 90% is useless, above 95% is unnecessary". So you'd take a gun with a little less damage to go from 91% to 94% accuracy, but not from 95% to 97% because at that point you've decided it doesn't help anymore. If you change skills or gain a bunch of proficiency the range can shift. :Using damage/magazine is also flawed. Think about it, between two guns you're literally comparing the damage you do in one magazine. By taking out time the assumption is you don't shoot again after the magazine is empty. Now that I think about it that might be a decent measure for an actual firefight when reloading behind cover. But for DPS in theory what you need to do is account for the seconds of reload time. :Sustained Damage/Second := (Damage per Second You Are Firing)(Fraction of seconds you are firing) := (Damage x Fire Rate) to empty magazine) / (reload time + time to empty magazine) :--Raisins 18:56, December 6, 2009 (UTC) :---- : I haven't seen too many discussions on DPS, and most of the ones I have seen are wrong. So here it is: D=Damage (per bullet) A=Accuracy F=Fire Rate (=bullets per second) R=Reload Speed (seconds) M=Magazine size (number of bullets) (note:' 'divide '''this number by the number of bullets per shot', if applicable) E=Elemental DPS (multiply elemental coefficients per target type if necessary) C=Chance for elemental DPS(no reload) = D*F DPS(reload) = D*M / (M/F + R) DPS(reload + elemental) = D*M / (M/F + R) + E*C DPS(reload + elemental + accuracy) = A * (D*M / (M/F + R) + E*C) Notes: -Personally, I use DPS (reload + elemental) to judge weapons. I'm assuming I'm at the right range to hit (close for shotguns, far for sniper), so accuracy doesn't matter. -If you want to account for accuracy (which would be like how much damage you could to at 100 feet, or something), then use the bottom one. -Using DPS(no reload) is okay for a quick check, but horribly wrong because it ignores reload. When it only takes 2 seconds to unload a clip, a 4 second reload is significantly worse than a 2 second reload. -A and E are percents. So if you use them in the formula, you need to use the decimal equivalent. X% = X/100. -Acid tends to last the longest and fire the shortest. But I've assumed they last until you reload. -Not sure how Slag affects damage, so ignored. An example: Damage = 74 Accuracy = 93.5 Fire Rate = 1.8 Reload Speed = 1.6 Magazine Size = 10 Burn Dmg/Sec = 41.6 Chance to Ignite = 17.9% Consumes 2 ammo per shot DPS(reload + elemental) = 74*5 / (5/1.8 + 1.6) + 41.6 * 0.179 = 84.5 + 7.4 = 92.0 Notice, M is actually 5, because every shot uses two bullets, effectively halving the clip size. : Source: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/638785-borderlands-2/64254642/719557141 : For explosive weapons (to find out the elemental DPS): :A certain percentage of the weapon card damage is dealt in a small area around the impact point, depending on the weapon type: :*Assault rifles: 90% :*Pistols: 100% :*Shotguns: 100% (patched: was 85% at game release) A direct hit with an explosive round will inflict both impact damage(increase in damage with only grenade damage upgrades) and splash damage on the target. However, the splash damage is never multiplied on a critical hit. ''Example: An assault rifle listed as doing 200 damage will deal 200 explosive damage on impact and 180 explosive splash damage. If the round hits a critical location, only the 200 damage is multiplied. If the target is shielded, both the impact damage and splash damage are reduced to 80% effectiveness (160 and 144, respectively). Note that certain weapons, notably assault rifles with the Torgue Torpedo barrel (always consumes 4 ammo per shot), only inflict splash damage (with 100% of its listed damage). Even direct hits from these weapons will deliver no impact damage. :: Source: http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Explosive :: Tornadowhiz (talk) 06:03, January 3, 2015 (UTC) :: ----